Microsoft Application analyser... "Redux"
CategoryUpdate: MS have pulled this tool. Click here for details
I wasn't going to look at the new application analyser until it came out of beta. I didn't want to for a number of reasons.
- Beta is beta, and it is not always fair to criticise a feature that may not yet be finished
- Free time, or the lack thereof. My day job is very busy and Lotusphere is next week = aint got time to do anything.
But a few things made me change my mind. The articles on "Red Bull" kept catching my eye. Please note, naming technical marketing campaign after a drink made for hen nights is just a bad idea (May I just point out that Red Bull gives you a wicked hangover.... maybe people should keep that in mind about the MS version aswell). The continuous emails about my review of the last product tells me that there is interest in this, and it warranted new investigation.
Also, the strategic timing of the Red Bull suite (day before Lotusphere) encouraged me to take a look now, as we will all be too busy to retort in detail during the week.
So, its Saturday evening and I have no life... I gave myself three hours into looking at the Beta Application Analyser and reviewing the reporting functionality. Before installing the product, I was the good little reviewer and opened the readme.txt file that comes with the product. Look at the first known issue:
"1. We have found that Lotus Notes is not able to handle large number of databases (typical 1000 databases). If the Application Analyser is run for more than 1000 databases will product an error for all the selected databases above 1000. The solution is to exit and re-execute the application for the remaining databases without selecting the "Clear all previously imported database information" checkbox if you want all the previous analysis to be included in one report."
Do I have to comment on this?? Would somebody be nice enough to post how many databases are on their production servers? Please, the analyser engine obviously cannot handle the volume and chucks a white flag.. so, lets blame notes and kick off some FUD while we are at it. Chris, I really hope you are reading this one...
Anyway, enough with that, lets get on with the show......
Installation of the Application analyser requires you to have .net framework 2 and MSDE SQL engine installed and running on your machine. After installing the engine, you must start an instance. I did this by typing in the following on a command prompt.
"c:\msdereia\setup sapwd="password"
But it still wont install on my machine. Why? It doesn't support the Notes 7 client. I had to downgrade to Notes 6.5.4 to get the thing to install. So, eventually, it is installed and I am ready to play First things first.... text from the help file.
"The Microsoft Application Analyser 2006 for Lotus Domino determines the size and scope of Lotus Domino applications, which is necessary for defining the best Microsoft solution for each application.
Microsoft has developed Sharepoint templates that map to several of the Lotus Domino default templates. Any Domino application that was created from a default Domino template and does not contain additional fields/data that must be migrated can easily be migrated to these Sharepoint templates.
Domino applications that were based on the default Lotus Domino templates but have been modified to include additional forms/data that must be migrated, or Domino applications that were created from a blank template can also be migrated, but additional steps are required to create the correct repository using Sharepoint, SQL, Access, Excel or another Microsoft solution and migrate the data."
.
Some points on this:
- This time, the analyser and report tool does not try to estimate how difficult it is to migrate the applications (because that would be too off-putting to the customer, being honest and all that), instead it attempts to group each database into one of four categories, and then tries to suggest a replacement MS solution.
- The tool attempts to group together the Quad1 and Quad2 applications that you may have as these are "easy to migrate" to preset templates in Sharepoint..
- The last line from the help file is exceptionally honest."Domino applications that were created from a blank template can also be migrated, but additional steps are required to create the correct repository using Sharepoint, SQL, Access, Excel or another Microsoft solution and migrate the data." So, instead of using the one solution, i.e. Lotus Notes, you could possibly, maybe get the same functionality if you throw just about every MS front and back end that they have at it, with some third party tools for good measure.
Before I get to running the report, I had a think about the "standard template" issue with Lotus Domino. What percentage of your databases(or a customer of yours) are "out of the box". I guessed it was low, very very low. But, I wanted to be sure. So I called a few developers and customers. The majority of the answers I got included the following statements:
"Mooney, its Saturday night.. F&^k off"
"Get a life Paul... Jesus....."
"I'm hanging up now".
But anyway, I convinced them to give me a few minutes of their time. First of all, NONE of the developers I spoke with have ever used a Lotus template to develop a solution for a customer. Nada... Zip. It takes more time to change someone else's work then to create a new application. I could see the sense in that.. I spoke on-line with three customers of mine. Simple answer - "we don't use the standard templates, with the exception of Room Resource and mail". I really believe this to be true. I go in and out of many customers each week and never see unmodified apps. You see, its easy (almost too easy) to modify an application and add workflow, and the beauty of the product is that it can give you applications to suit your process need, very quickly. No customer is the same, so standard templates are rarely used.
So I kicked off the tool and started to analyse some applications. First of all, the interface has improved greatly. It is a far slicker looking tool, and each report can be exported to pdf format. You choose the server and the applications you want to run the tool against, and the output is three reports. I have these reports taken and saved as pdf. If you want to see them, mail me and I will send them on. For privacy reasons, I am not posting excerpts here. But I can back up anything I say here (so no crappy responses please to my comments looking for proof).
Executive Summary Report
Usage information and a breakdown of databases by quadrant. Now, I ran this against bluewave production apps and customer apps (that we develop). The usage history report was completely inaccurate. Apparently, every application had not been accessed in the past 30 days. Now... these applications were Blue Wave office applications, used constantly every day.... Definitely something wrong there. How could they have not been accessed??
Not one application fell into Quadrant one and two. I created some template apps and re-ran the report, just to get some output data that would fall into those quadrants... and they did.
Quadrant Classification Report
Displays the applications by quadrant breakdown, and suggests MS products to replace them. Now this did make me laugh out loud on my own in my home-office with my dogs looking at me quite bemused... The template databases suggested replacement was "Windows Sharepoint Services, Template". Fair enough, apparently there is a template to replace them. Each quadrant 3/4 recommended replacement is "Windows Sharepoint Servers, Other". Now there is a product "Microsoft Other". I wonder if it works
. "Other" is footnoted with
"Further analysis is required to identify possibly solutions from
the Microsoft collaborative platform". I agree with this statement.
Further analysis would be required to do this, but almost every application
falls into these quadrants. Therefore, (and I will make this loud
for the cheap seats) IT IS NOT "EASY" TO MIGRATE THE APPS. There
is no "magic migrate button". A lot of reputable MS people
know that, and admit to that, but the documentation that is thrown at the
customer does not say that.
Domino Template Based Applications Report
This is just a cut down report based exactly on the previous Quadrant Classification Report, just including Quad1 and Quad2 databases.
And... that's it guys. There is very little of anything to this tool. Now, it looks good, don't get me wrong, but in my opinion, it has less substance then the old version. The analyser reporting tool is now more of a marketing tool then the previous one, which at least tried to be technical. This whole tool aims at the assumption that standard lotus templates are in use only (which may be the case in relation to Quickplace and Sametime) which, for the vast majority is not the case. So, this product is honest. It tells you the truth, so to speak. You cannot easily migrate to an MS solution, becuase MS cannot do what Lotus can do. I challange anyone to run this tool against their production envioronment and tell me that more applications fall into the "easy" Quad1 and 2 catagories, then the others.
This is a prelude to a FUD generator, nothing more. I wanted this on-line before this tool is rammed down the throat of my customers (or any Lotus site) as a reference. Please please please, if you have ran it, let me know if you agree. Or if you think I am out of line with the quantity of standard templates on customer sites, I would like to know.
Right, ... now its midnight. I'm done!
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Comments
You are posting on the old analyser post here. If you want it visible for discussion, you should go for the newer one. It *might* be easily coded as a VB app. But it may well not be able to bel
Posted by Paul Mooney At 09:14:40 On 03/03/2006 | - Website - |
I'd hardly consider myself representative, though.
Honestly, we all know there's a ton of Notes shops out there that only use mail, and those are obviously low-hanging fruit for this effort. And it's not like IBM itself wasn't pushing Domino application migration to Websphere 3 years ago. But no matter what you're moving from or to, it's really quite rare that a platform migration makes sense for a deployed business application.
Posted by Nathan T. Freeman At 14:55:01 On 17/01/2006 | - Website - |
Posted by Danny Lawrence At 19:11:31 On 17/01/2006 | - Website - |
Just my $0.02.
Posted by Tom K At 00:11:12 On 24/01/2006 | - Website - |
I would be happy to do one.
Posted by Paul Mooney At 15:15:14 On 17/01/2006 | - Website - |
Posted by Paul Mooney At 00:08:53 On 15/01/2006 | - Website - |
Posted by CASINO At 22:17:17 On 08/03/2006 | - Website - |
Just keep in mind that the 1000 applicaitions "limit" seems to be a "per server" failing of the analyser, not the domain in total.
Posted by Paul Mooney At 13:19:25 On 15/01/2006 | - Website - |
Oh, yeah... we did modify our mail templates.
Posted by Kevin S. At 01:15:33 On 18/01/2006 | - Website - |
Posted by Paul Mooney At 11:24:48 On 17/01/2006 | - Website - |
I will run this tool in my production environment, just for fun.
Posted by Ben Rose At 00:36:47 On 15/01/2006 | - Website - |
Yep... with vodka.... I will remember to take a photo of myself the morning after a night on the tiles with Redbull and vodka. Put a caption on it.... "This is what Reb Bull can do for you".
Tim - considering the biggest server you have (I would guess the replication HUB), how many apps are on that one?
Posted by Paul Mooney At 13:03:44 On 17/01/2006 | - Website - |
If they're downing Red Bull, I'm guessing a "hen night" is more like a Bachelorette party than a bridal shower.....
Posted by Tim Haugen At 12:42:34 On 17/01/2006 | - Website - |
As of this writing, 11 460.
However, to be honest, there's probably only about 150 unique templates.
Posted by Nathan T. Freeman At 08:50:14 On 17/01/2006 | - Website - |
Then I would have to question the relevance of such an application, irrespective of how technically accurate at breaking down a Notes database this tool might be, does it also detail the Workflow of the data to meet the Business requirement ?
I've been working with Lotus Notes for over Ten years now, and I've worked in three major multi national systems, from 6K to 30K users. I've also spoken with a lot of Notes people in other multinationals.
a) 1 K is the bare minimum number of databases that would exist in an organisation of 5K + users
b) The only applications that are not generally customised are Email (Well guess it all depends on whether you are onto Lotus Support) , NAB, Resource Res and Sametime meetings rooms.
c) Business solutions consist of a suite of Notes databases that interact with each other and other apps. These Notes databases take data from other sources for display , authorisation and processing. In my experience these have included ( but is not limited to ) Notes, Oracle , Siebel , Excel Peoplesoft etc Ohh and of course you have to add Double Byte Character sets in there as well. I think its a process that Notes excels in, called Workflow ? According to the analysis tool is that what is meant by 'additional steps' ?
So even if Red Bull could correctly break down the technical requirements to migrate a single Notes database, how would this help in estimating the time, effort and technical requirements to migrating a global Notes installation, if it cannot track the dataflow, authorisation and security layers etc etc between applications ?
Ohh and I think a Hen Party is called a Bridal Shower
Posted by Mrs D. At 12:19:15 On 15/01/2006 | - Website - |
Posted by Jeff At 17:50:57 On 07/03/2006 | - Website - |
I have been on the MS course and I can assure you that migrating or synchronising data between systems is easy and very efficient.
Moving data from applications like Quickplace to Sharepoint is a no brainer. Sharepoint is 50% better than Quickplace (Twice as good
So, as a real Lotus Notes Aficionado I would like to stress to you that a properly installed and configure Sharepoint server can serve data every bit as well as the best deployed Domino server out there on any platform. The applications you can create with Sharepoint are stunning and yes you do need development staff and it is not really RAD.
The only, let me stress, the ONLY reason the Casahl technology does not decimate the Domino market is that Microsoft does not have a technology that can match what Domino does. Not even with Ray Ozzy on board. However, put this in perspective, if IBM did not own Lotus Notes they would not have a suitable technology either.
Thus...
Lotus Notes and Domino is out there and will continue to grow because it is unique and real work horse. It is not excellent technology but is good enough and there are no other mature products that can match it almost any aspect.
That said, Microsoft will always gain market share at the cost of Lotus Notes and Domino in the bigger corporate space where fud counts because marketing from MS seems better and they look after partners better. Please access the latest discussion in the Partner Forum between Wayne and the top IBMers as to partner support.
But...
Is this a problem? Let me be blunt here. You trashed a seriously good offering from Microsoft and Casahl on perceived merit without considering the bigger picture. Your blog is being used by top brass as its own fud generator.
Why not...
Let Microsoft have their way with customers and use the tool to engage Casahl commercially. Sure a small percentage of Notes databases, the easy ones, will be migrated away. Considering what I said about Domino and what you and we all know about complex applications there is no way a complex app can be migrated (easily). It can of course be retired but there is another way.
The other way...
The Casahl technology is NotesPump. It is similar to LEI that is used in almost all big Domino shops to ship data between various databases and Domino, IE proven methodology. The Casahl technology will happily keep a SQL database and Domino database synchronised. Surely that is the best of both worlds? The MS Sharepoint people are happy as they have access to the data and the Domino people should be happy as they do not have to change the Domino Database and related logic.
I know this sounds simplistic but I am running out of energy to write this response.
Getting a customer to spend money on a technology refresh is a good thing in a stagnant market. If we, as Domino people, use the opportunity to work with Casahl technology and stop being so damn stubborn we will all win. We can then easily prove to our customers, managers, CTO's that the core data is in the best place possible, Domino on I/P/X/Z series, and that surfacing the data in a Microsoft front end is not such a bad thing in moderation.
It is all about heterogeneous systems and franky I think the Casahl technology is stunning and very capable in this space.
What I would say to Ed, Alan and Antony is that maybe IBM should also sign up with Casahl as well and work out a similar but different strategy of migration with Co-existence. Why not?
Posted by Domino person At 16:34:21 On 09/04/2006 | - Website - |
We do have a fair number of standard Notes templates that have been added to over the years. Some have just 2 or 3 new fields whilst others have 50 or more.
One of our customers migrated an application that we wrote for them to the MS platform. This was not a complex application and was running on their main Notes applications server, this box is about 3 years old and again not a massive powerfull box by any means. MS came back and said that the needed 7 server to run the application and that it would cost 10x what we charged to write the application, this charge is purly the development cost. The customer went ahead and managed to get the number of servers down to 5. That is for just 1 application. If they want to convert more applications they will need more servers.
They then turned round and said that they just cannot afford the MS way of doing it and are sticking to Notes. They believe the pack of lies that MS tell them and it has cost them an arm and leg.
Posted by Nick Halliwell At 09:12:14 On 18/01/2006 | - Website - |
Sean---
Posted by Sean Burgess At 16:54:39 On 18/01/2006 | - Website - |
You cannot easily migrate to an MS solution, becuase MS cannot do what Lotus can do.
[/quote]
I don't agree with this assertion. The tool just says that this app can't be automatically converted to .NET code by the tool, but it might be easily coded from scratch in .NET.
Sometimes it makes even sense to rebuild a functionality from scratch, because the existing app has become difficult to maintain and to adapt to minor changes in the business requirements. Thats a well known fact of our industry.
Posted by Axel At 07:34:11 On 03/03/2006 | - Website - |
Posted by Mrs D. At 17:40:07 On 15/01/2006 | - Website - |