pmooney.net

1 - [10] - I guess DXL won't work for pre R6 releases. However it's perfectly possible to use the simple API's to figure out the number of forms, form controls, reports(views) and other stuff for any release - it will give a rough idea on the complexity.

However, for MS it's not about understanding complexity!

2 - @19 - IBM does quite a good job of documenting how to get to pretty much everything in an NSF file, including DXL to dump everything to XML. Certainly better than Microsoft does at documenting proprietary formats. The problem is, it isn't easy to migrate to Websphere either. It is really a rewrite. That is why the key word should not be "migration" but rather "coexistence". Proposion sells tools that help with Notes/Domino-.NET coexistence and more. My company, Genii Software, sells tools that help with Notes/Domino-Exchange coexistence and Notes/Domino-Sharepoint coexistence. There are others tools in this category as well, all of which help companies to NOT migrate, but rather to focus energy on new and more compelling business related work.

3 - Very good description. I think every Notes expert will laugh about this tool (getting this base information about the underlying templates with a little Lotus Script Agent)

Nevertheless I get the duty to analyze a Domino infrastructure with this tool and run into an error installing the tool:

I installed .NET-Framework 2.0, MSDE 2000 A and setup an instance of MSDE with [setup sapwd="password"] – thx Paul – and get the error on starting the analyzer: "Invalid connection stringInvalid connection StringConfiguration system failed to initialize"

After deleting MSDE and tried it with SQL Server 2000 and re-installing the Analyzer -> same error. I tried it with another PC -> same error.

Any ideas?

4 - I agree with Ben.

Get the people who are running your "analysis" to convert one application (that you pick!) they claim is "easy". And watch them flounder.

And then hold them to the commercial agreement whereby they would migrate them all in a particular timespan. At a fixed price.

That'll drive them out of business...



---* Bill

5 - @5 interesting that you suggest a fixed-price approach. I met with a Notes customer last week who is in this scenario, considering a migration to MS based on MS's run of this tool and other factors. I challenged them to consider them impact of what happens if Microsoft's scoping of the migration effort is off-base and it is more difficult or takes longer to do the conversion. The customer said, well, it doesn't matter, we'll have them propose a fixed-price project and the risk will be theirs. My response was basically that I'm sure MS would offer a fixed-price effort, but would they complete the project on time? And once it becomes clear (as it has at so many customers) that the MS platform can't replace key Notes applications, won't they be too far down the path (both technically and politically) to go back?

It reminds me of something from my youth. One day, the neighbor across the street from us had a brand new Corvette parked in their driveway. Red, of course. Not exactly a family car, but the dad in that family had decided he wanted a Corvette. It was shiny and flashy and hot and fast. One week later, it was gone, with him having taken a bath on the cost of that car, both in terms of cash and in terms of reputation. But it's not like he traded it back for his old car -- then it was on to something else. Too late...

6 - 19 - your post is comments by itself. I dare say you have no idea what you are talking about. I DO know how to integrate Domino apps with Portal, I run seminars on this topic. Is not "migrate" nor "port", and it is not definitely done with portlets only. Again, you are just being blatantly polemic from the start and only demonstrate your utter lack of knowledge, so going down discussing the rest of your post is useless. I will stop here.
RoB

7 - I think that it would be reasonable for the customer to demand to see the config files that were used by Microslth when they ran the analyzer. Then insist that they let you run your own instance with those config files to make sure they didn't monkey with the output. Disect to config file to see how badly they are forcing it to skew the results.

Of course, it the M$ sales weasels have already put on the kneepads and gotten to work, there's no way you get the chance to do all this.

8 - I think a free Notes client might convince people to start using Lotus Notes at home maybe?

9 - Gyus, I can see where you are coming from, with internal politics in mind. CIO likes Outlook... he uses it at home. Doesnt like Lotus Notes. Therefore bias is already there. I dont want to comment on that aspect of it (but I do see it a lot).
My point is that this tool can be misused and handed to customers. Get the customer to commit, and then deal with the flack later when it is too late to realise the mistake.

10 - The App Analyzer serves one purpose: to rationalize a decision that some CxO has already made. It's a way to justify their relationship with MS, pure and simple.

It might be otherwise if the thing actually did some analysis. Which, honestly, it could do. DXL is so open at this point, it wouldn't be rocket science to parse XML to look for stuff like integrated messaging, cross-NSF or external data references, or even differentiation from a standard template (after all, you can analyze the template, too, y'know.)

People like to categorize this kind of thing as "political." That's always struck me as far too forgiving. It's BLATANT LOBBYING, with all the kickbacks and bribery that lobbying entails. Chase a CIO, offer him a world of perks for being an MS Enterprise, then cough up crap like the App Analyzer to help him justify his decision to everyone else.

Don't know why they didn't just call the tool "WayForward Technologies."

11 - I completely agree with Ben and Mike. This would seem a great opportunity for inviting a fixed price quotation from Microsoft to come in and prove themselves. This would put them between a rock and a hard place.
Great Post Paul!

12 -

13 - If IBM can migrate port Domino apps to Websphere Portal using portlets then Microsoft should be able to do the same.
Perhaps the issue is that IBM don't share all the information needed to allow this to happen as painlessly in an MS collab environment as they claim it can in a "Workplace collab" environment. If IBM opened up the specification for NSF binary files then we'd see a more level playing field that would benefit customers with data locked in what is essentially a proprietary IBM format.
Lotus' BPs are, in my experience, excellent, and many have the skills to make the migration of legacy Domino and Notes apps to modern standards based web infrastrucutres (and I think Microsoft are in this category as well as Workplace) a non-issue.
Of course Lotus would then have to compete rather than celebrating how locked in customers are (which is one way of looing at this thread, and dare I say, Ed Brill's comments on the topic on his celebrated blog)
I asked an IBM standards guy about this at a conference recently - but his answer was just flannel.
I wish Microsoft success with this initiaitve, and if I was the CxO and someone came to me celebrating how locked in I was to the only platform they knew I am sure I would recognise the game being played.

14 - Are you on crack?
You're not far off the mark Nathan -- look at the handle he posts under: "Chaz" is short for "Charlie"

15 - Paul,

I know this topic may be getting a bit stale now, but the email you have paraphrased is a classic case of MS sallying up to a potential win by identifying a "weak" client site. I think the trick is for BP's to list their current list of clients and determine who is a MS Candidate. I have listed what I think are 4 classifications of potential client sites vulnerable to thie mis-information/deception.

<A href="http://giuliocc.dominodeveloper.net/giuliocc/home.nsf/dx/Application-Analyzer-and-Zen-BP">Zen Approach to the Sleazy BP practices</a>

Hope this provides BP's with a logical approach with dealing these sort of tactics without it degenerating into a slanging match or duelling pistols at 10 paces.

Giulio

16 - Great post, Paul... thanks for sharing it.

17 - I agree that this is appalling... but I have to ask a follow up question. I don't want to sound naive, but if Microsoft gives the analyzer out, and your person is able to install it and run it and demonstrate these results to his or her management, why are they going to believe that Microsoft ran the same tool and got such different results? If the management simply believes Microsoft's assertions even when they are contradicted by Microsoft's tool, wouldn't they have believed Microsoft without the tool, due to an incredible gullibility, I guess?


If a vendor runs a proprietary analyzer and says all my apps could be easily migrated, but gives me no way to reproduce the results, I would tend to be skeptical. If they give me the tool so I can re-run it on my own and it completely, totally disagrees with their reported assessment, I am a lot more than skeptical, I know they are lying.

But the answer is simple. Take an application that Microsoft says falls into Quadrant 1, which should be slam dunk simple to migrate (pick one you know is not so simple, as there should be no harm in cherry picking to prove a point), and say "Prove it!" If it is such an easy conversion, as Quadrant 1 should be, they can do it. If not, they are full of sh*t, and your company has a fairly clear demonstration of that.

So, again, I agree that this sort of behavior is reprehensible... and probably not that uncommon. But if it really happened just as described, management who didn't look at the results of Microsoft's own tool and see that it conflicted with Microsoft's assertions are probably pretty incompetent or biased in the first place. If Microsoft didn't give out the tool, you could easily blast them for spreading misinformation. As it is, they are simply proving themselves both immoral and incompetent, and proving it fairly directly and openly.

18 - Ok I need someone that can host a few XML files for this wonderful thing. I have a couple of XML files for the AARules that will show your applications are all best suited for Lotus Notes or Websphere. (Even made one to show everything better to run in "Comma Delimited Files". Read my analysis here
http://workdomosphere.blogspot.com/2006/03/application-analyzer-magic-show.html

19 - @5, @8 Taking the fixed price "prove it" approach in a little different direction, perhaps we could, at the industry level, pressure MS to show a successful conversion of some non-standard application, with information on the time and money spent doing it. It should be possible to get permission to at least have some unbiased analyst review the before and after and report on the findings, even if the application cannot be shared publicly.

I may have missed something, but it strikes me as a little odd that I've never heard of a case study for converting a custom Notes app to .NET/VB whatever. Is MS somehow exempt from this requirement that all other vendors routinely get asked about? If their failure to demonstrate such a success can be played up in the press enough, it might embarrass any CxO greedy enough or stupid enough to ignore the technical merits of the decision.

We could take ""Notes is Dead" is Dead" and add "Notes to Exchange is Dead" or something like that

20 - Great post Ben - it does seem that the best approach would be to get the company to say to Microsoft "put up or shut up" - but you never know what vested interests others in the company have. I hope they see through the spin before committing to anything

I do feel sorry for the poster - sounds like he is about to be run over by a steamroller!!

21 - #16 - This is obviously a ggod point, but the time it took would also be evidence.

22 - To the folks suggesting a fixed-price conversion project: if I ran a corporation with $60 billion in cash, I'd probably be willing to lose money on conversion projects that lock customers into my proprietary solution for near-perpetuity. That's just me thinking out loud ... not the opinion of my employer.

23 - I can see where there customer is coming from. The MS guys probably have a direct communications link to the CIO of the company and the 'findings' will be looked at the this same CIO. The admin guy can't get this same path, he'll have to go to their boss and so on up the chain and at some point some smart arsed MS guy in the company will just say he's whinging and then his results will never reach the CIO. I've seen it happen...

24 - Paul,

Will we get the chance to get regular updates on this particular case? Will make interesting reading

25 - .

26 - If IBM opened up the specification for NSF binary files then we'd see a more level playing field that would benefit customers with data locked in what is essentially a proprietary IBM format.

wha-wha-WHAT!??!?!?!

You've got a comprehesive C API for this. You've got a comprehensive XML Schema for external integration. What kind of complete retard would want to work from the BINARY version of an NSF!??!?! Are you on crack?

27 - Thanks a lot for posting that email in addidition to the work you've been doing digging through this application. It's good to know how they're actually using this tool out there.